Ok, I'm just gonna come out and say it...
Not sure Elements can even use "actions and presets" (whatever they are). What is your motivation to start this thread?
If selling these things is legal, I do not see a reason not to do it.
This is like a bunch of non-photographer getting together and saying "charging $3000 to take a bunch of photos is highway robbery." Everyone paying it so it can't be robbery.
Personally, I have enough worries without concerning myself how others try to make money. As long as it's legal, to each their own.
send me a pm about it - with a free sample!
As for selling actins - would this be to do with that certain ad? (which is showing right now for me ;)) I, personally think these are aimed at those looking for a certain effect and are wanting a quick method of achiveing it. If I were after a certain effect I would search and pester forums and chances are someone would know the information or a good starting point - that would take time.
I think also their have an air of professionalism so I can well see people buying them - not me, but I can see the attraction
I think you're misunderstanding the software industry. When computers first became "available" there were no software vendors. Later on we got operating systems with them but for programs you either had to write your own, or pay someone to skew you up some custom code. So they (computers) remained a tool of geekdom where no one could use them except for custom jobs - usually specific database applications. There were usually just programmers and corporate users. As "software applications" became more general purpose more people became users - personal users. Today it's no different and if you want something that you don't know how to make or don't have the time to make it's wonderful to be able to buy it. Scripts and actions are only an extension of that policy. Sure someone who has spent the time and knows very well how to do it might scoff but the guy who wants black-box button level automation and has no time for anything else would be mad if scoffers caused a gap in product availability that he happened to need.
I think PhotoShop and especially PhotoShop in the hands of a professional photographer (most of whom are PS dunces in my experience), under that environment has created a demand for such add-ons. Keep in mind there are those code-savvy warriors who scoff consistently at the majority of PS plug-ins as well. You're only just one level down from them but IMO it's the same thing. Those who understand the niche/need and seise the opportunity prosper. And good on them for it too imho.
heh, well I daresay I understand the industry since I'm strapped to it and work in it all the time, but I think I'm being a bit elitist about it... or at least naive, despite my experience in it.
You make a great point. I'll go back to my cave and grumble about how some people could be replaced with a very small shell script. :wink:
If there is a photographer working 30-50 weddings a year, I'm sure they have mastered photoshop by themselves to gain that reputation from their portfolio to get them that many bookings.
You may think it's cheesy but for the thousands of pro wedding photogs who use them, it saves a bunch of time. Sure you can take the time to find out how to do each step in Photoshop, but if you're shooting 30-50 weddings a year you may not have time to take a class or read a book on the subject. When you're a wedding photographer, speed of workflow is very important. The nice thing about those actions is you can either use a little bit or a lot and you can combine them too. I'm not saying you should use them all the time, because I think you shouldn't depend on them 100%, but they are helpful.
I should do an experiment one day, with two equal products. Tell people they are different - one is free, the other 50$. No doubt the 50$ one will get the better review.
Anyway, I stopped being surprised years ago about what people will sell, and what people will buy.
You mean like a brand name shirt @ Macys for $70 - identical shirt, different color @ Costco for $19. Wife tells me to not waste money buying generic Costco junk when I got the Macys one from her for birthday. I was saving for 70-200 at that time so I just put shirt down and kept walking :wink:
Not trying to start a Nikon vs Canon ... I can't tell what is what with Nikon. With Canon it's "white" or "red rubber band" - sell me a junk lens, but please put red rubber band on it, and I'm good to go :thumbup:
Like I love sunshine in my hand (phaunt), I can't seem to replicate that myself. And I love super fun happy (totally rad actions) at a very low opacity to create highlights that I can't master yet either. So for some things, it gives what I lack.. but hopefully learn from :)
manaheim, don't worry I'm sure you're not in the minority on this one.
I do hope though that the pros out there (wedding, portrait, commercial, etc.) don't fall into the trap of depending on these actions 100% of the time. There are a lot of them out there using them.
One thing to ponder...
Kevin Kubota is a member of WPPI and is a speaker at their yearly convention. I would have to say that he also has a booth at the trade show. How many of those photographers that have been a member of WPPI and in the business for some time (years) are using these actions?
Look, it's just image creation. Nowhere in any of the manuals does it state you have to reinvent photography or image creation every time you touch a camera or a computer. It's perfectly o.k. to use off-the-shelf software. And a plug-in or an action is just a small piece of software, even if it doesn't live on it's own.
Frankly, the whole post smacks a little of superiority, manaheim.
I think you're misunderstanding the software industry. When computers first became "available" there were no software vendors. Later on we got operating systems with them but for programs you either had to write your own, or pay someone to skew you up some custom code. So they (computers) remained a tool of geekdom where no one could use them except for custom jobs - usually specific database applications. There were usually just programmers and corporate users. As "software applications" became more general purpose more people became users - personal users. Today it's no different and if you want something that you don't know how to make or don't have the time to make it's wonderful to be able to buy it. Scripts and actions are only an extension of that policy. Sure someone who has spent the time and knows very well how to do it might scoff but the guy who wants black-box button level automation and has no time for anything else would be mad if scoffers caused a gap in product availability that he happened to need.
I think PhotoShop and especially PhotoShop in the hands of a professional photographer (most of whom are PS dunces in my experience), under that environment has created a demand for such add-ons. Keep in mind there are those code-savvy warriors who scoff consistently at the majority of PS plug-ins as well. You're only just one level down from them but IMO it's the same thing. Those who understand the niche/need and seise the opportunity prosper. And good on them for it too imho.
I should do an experiment one day, with two equal products. Tell people they are different - one is free, the other 50$. No doubt the 50$ one will get the better review.
Anyway, I stopped being surprised years ago about what people will sell, and what people will buy.
Exaaaaaaaaactly.
As for selling actins - would this be to do with that certain ad? (which is showing right now for me ;)) I, personally think these are aimed at those looking for a certain effect and are wanting a quick method of achiveing it. If I were after a certain effect I would search and pester forums and chances are someone would know the information or a good starting point - that would take time.
I think also their have an air of professionalism so I can well see people buying them - not me, but I can see the attraction
Yup, has to do with the
I guess I can buy the "spending money to reduce time spent" thing. However, see my response to Mike...
You may think it's cheesy but for the thousands of pro wedding photogs who use them, it saves a bunch of time. Sure you can take the time to find out how to do each step in Photoshop, but if you're shooting 30-50 weddings a year you may not have time to take a class or read a book on the subject. When you're a wedding photographer, speed of workflow is very important. The nice thing about those actions is you can either use a little bit or a lot and you can combine them too. I'm not saying you should use them all the time, because I think you shouldn't depend on them 100%, but they are helpful.
Yeah now this is one I don't get... if you're shooting that many weddings and you need this effect, then you really need to learn it yourself. This is my opinion, but I wouldn't want my product going out with someone elses effect on it. Nor would I want every product I put out to look exactly the same.
Of course, I also don't buy greeting cards because I have a problem giving someone else a "personal note" that someone else wrote. Clearly I am in the minority on that one, however, so perhaps I am in the minority here.
I mean, where there's a market, why not sell stuff I suppose... this just seems really odd.
I have an action to create a frame for TPF... anyone wanna buy it? A bargain at $25! :)
Don't bet on it...
Kevin Kubota is making a fortune on his action sets. It isn't all amateurs that are buying them.
As I said before, I'm sure they don't use all of them or all the time, but I'm sure (and I've seen proof) they use them and it's not just the lower priced (below $2500) photographers either.
On the other hand though, if you are shooting upwards of 50 weddings a year, you may have someone working for you that does strictly post-processing and that person probably has an extensive knowledge of the all mighty Photoshop. Depends on the photographer though.
If selling these things is legal, I do not see a reason not to do it.
This is like a bunch of non-photographer getting together and saying "charging $3000 to take a bunch of photos is highway robbery." Everyone paying it so it can't be robbery.
Personally, I have enough worries without concerning myself how others try to make money. As long as it's legal, to each their own.
Well, that's another question entirely... understanding how people make money is kinda the key to... well... understanding how to make money.
The very fact that I get paid for my photography came out of a discussion very like this one, where the first thing I said was "Oh my god, are you serious? He gets paid $xxxx per job... for that? Hell, I could do a lot better than that."
Of course, you have to combine that with my general personality, which is to become rather twitchy when I see people make money off of things that do not match up with my political or sociological views on things. :lol:
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