Ok, I'm just gonna come out and say it...

  • Isn't selling photoshop actions and presets... just a little... um... cheesy?


  • Isn't selling photoshop actions and presets... just a little... um... cheesy?

    Not sure Elements can even use "actions and presets" (whatever they are). What is your motivation to start this thread?

    If selling these things is legal, I do not see a reason not to do it.

    This is like a bunch of non-photographer getting together and saying "charging $3000 to take a bunch of photos is highway robbery." Everyone paying it so it can't be robbery.

    Personally, I have enough worries without concerning myself how others try to make money. As long as it's legal, to each their own.


  • I guess there's a market for them, somewhere. To me it seems like buying someone else's groceries. Sure I'll get food, but is it going to be exactly what I want?


  • hmm I am definatly interested in that black document!
    send me a pm about it - with a free sample!

    As for selling actins - would this be to do with that certain ad? (which is showing right now for me ;)) I, personally think these are aimed at those looking for a certain effect and are wanting a quick method of achiveing it. If I were after a certain effect I would search and pester forums and chances are someone would know the information or a good starting point - that would take time.
    I think also their have an air of professionalism so I can well see people buying them - not me, but I can see the attraction


  • manaheim,

    I think you're misunderstanding the software industry. When computers first became "available" there were no software vendors. Later on we got operating systems with them but for programs you either had to write your own, or pay someone to skew you up some custom code. So they (computers) remained a tool of geekdom where no one could use them except for custom jobs - usually specific database applications. There were usually just programmers and corporate users. As "software applications" became more general purpose more people became users - personal users. Today it's no different and if you want something that you don't know how to make or don't have the time to make it's wonderful to be able to buy it. Scripts and actions are only an extension of that policy. Sure someone who has spent the time and knows very well how to do it might scoff but the guy who wants black-box button level automation and has no time for anything else would be mad if scoffers caused a gap in product availability that he happened to need.

    I think PhotoShop and especially PhotoShop in the hands of a professional photographer (most of whom are PS dunces in my experience), under that environment has created a demand for such add-ons. Keep in mind there are those code-savvy warriors who scoff consistently at the majority of PS plug-ins as well. You're only just one level down from them but IMO it's the same thing. Those who understand the niche/need and seise the opportunity prosper. And good on them for it too imho.

    heh, well I daresay I understand the industry since I'm strapped to it and work in it all the time, but I think I'm being a bit elitist about it... or at least naive, despite my experience in it.

    You make a great point. I'll go back to my cave and grumble about how some people could be replaced with a very small shell script. :wink:


  • You may think it's cheesy but for the thousands of pro wedding photogs who use them, it saves a bunch of time. Sure you can take the time to find out how to do each step in Photoshop, but if you're shooting 30-50 weddings a year you may not have time to take a class or read a book on the subject.

    If there is a photographer working 30-50 weddings a year, I'm sure they have mastered photoshop by themselves to gain that reputation from their portfolio to get them that many bookings.


  • Isn't selling photoshop actions and presets... just a little... um... cheesy?

    You may think it's cheesy but for the thousands of pro wedding photogs who use them, it saves a bunch of time. Sure you can take the time to find out how to do each step in Photoshop, but if you're shooting 30-50 weddings a year you may not have time to take a class or read a book on the subject. When you're a wedding photographer, speed of workflow is very important. The nice thing about those actions is you can either use a little bit or a lot and you can combine them too. I'm not saying you should use them all the time, because I think you shouldn't depend on them 100%, but they are helpful.


  • Selling actions and scripts for Adobe products is fine. I don't buy them but I could see myself recommending them in some cases.


  • ...and Props and Thank-You to the companies that support our little community here.


  • eh its my opinion, from my experience, that people would rather buy an inferior product that get a superior free one. For some reason I guess it makes them feel like they got the better one.

    I should do an experiment one day, with two equal products. Tell people they are different - one is free, the other 50$. No doubt the 50$ one will get the better review.

    Anyway, I stopped being surprised years ago about what people will sell, and what people will buy.

    You mean like a brand name shirt @ Macys for $70 - identical shirt, different color @ Costco for $19. Wife tells me to not waste money buying generic Costco junk when I got the Macys one from her for birthday. I was saving for 70-200 at that time so I just put shirt down and kept walking :wink:

    Not trying to start a Nikon vs Canon ... I can't tell what is what with Nikon. With Canon it's "white" or "red rubber band" - sell me a junk lens, but please put red rubber band on it, and I'm good to go :thumbup:


  • If I found one that I wanted and if it cost what I was willing to pay, then yes, I would buy it.


  • I don't think so.. but your milage may vary :) I think there are some good ones out there. Its weeding through the crap ones first though and first having a real fundamental knowledge of what the process is in an action, too.

    Like I love sunshine in my hand (phaunt), I can't seem to replicate that myself. And I love super fun happy (totally rad actions) at a very low opacity to create highlights that I can't master yet either. So for some things, it gives what I lack.. but hopefully learn from :)


  • As the saying goes... "Build it and they will come."

    manaheim, don't worry I'm sure you're not in the minority on this one.

    I do hope though that the pros out there (wedding, portrait, commercial, etc.) don't fall into the trap of depending on these actions 100% of the time. There are a lot of them out there using them.

    One thing to ponder...

    Kevin Kubota is a member of WPPI and is a speaker at their yearly convention. I would have to say that he also has a booth at the trade show. How many of those photographers that have been a member of WPPI and in the business for some time (years) are using these actions?


  • What everyone needs to remember is, is that all the actions in the world will not turn a crappy photo into a good photo.;)


  • There has to be some value on them to someone as they sell pretty good. All I have to say is if you don't like them don't buy hem other people buy use and like them so be it.


  • In the old days, there were probably photographers who scoffed at those that bought cameras, rather than built their own.

    Look, it's just image creation. Nowhere in any of the manuals does it state you have to reinvent photography or image creation every time you touch a camera or a computer. It's perfectly o.k. to use off-the-shelf software. And a plug-in or an action is just a small piece of software, even if it doesn't live on it's own.

    Frankly, the whole post smacks a little of superiority, manaheim.


  • hehehe, no harm done here. If anything it was an interesting look at various levels of both software and competence.


  • manaheim,

    I think you're misunderstanding the software industry. When computers first became "available" there were no software vendors. Later on we got operating systems with them but for programs you either had to write your own, or pay someone to skew you up some custom code. So they (computers) remained a tool of geekdom where no one could use them except for custom jobs - usually specific database applications. There were usually just programmers and corporate users. As "software applications" became more general purpose more people became users - personal users. Today it's no different and if you want something that you don't know how to make or don't have the time to make it's wonderful to be able to buy it. Scripts and actions are only an extension of that policy. Sure someone who has spent the time and knows very well how to do it might scoff but the guy who wants black-box button level automation and has no time for anything else would be mad if scoffers caused a gap in product availability that he happened to need.

    I think PhotoShop and especially PhotoShop in the hands of a professional photographer (most of whom are PS dunces in my experience), under that environment has created a demand for such add-ons. Keep in mind there are those code-savvy warriors who scoff consistently at the majority of PS plug-ins as well. You're only just one level down from them but IMO it's the same thing. Those who understand the niche/need and seise the opportunity prosper. And good on them for it too imho.


  • BTW, I do understand your "personal note" argument and I agree if the photos are being sold and presented as "works of art". Weddings were mentioned so that's as good an example as any I guess. The customer gets what, about 50 images? And the studio spends quality time on what, about 5 of them? The other 45 are candidates for any kind of automation that can improve their general quality or artistic appeal. So even in the case of the photographer doing weddings who knows how, these scripts and actions may very well be desirable.


  • eh its my opinion, from my experience, that people would rather buy an inferior product that get a superior free one. For some reason I guess it makes them feel like they got the better one.

    I should do an experiment one day, with two equal products. Tell people they are different - one is free, the other 50$. No doubt the 50$ one will get the better review.

    Anyway, I stopped being surprised years ago about what people will sell, and what people will buy.


  • If anyone's interested, I have a template for a blank document in Word. $3,175.99 without manual or support.

    Exaaaaaaaaactly.

    As for selling actins - would this be to do with that certain ad? (which is showing right now for me ;)) I, personally think these are aimed at those looking for a certain effect and are wanting a quick method of achiveing it. If I were after a certain effect I would search and pester forums and chances are someone would know the information or a good starting point - that would take time.
    I think also their have an air of professionalism so I can well see people buying them - not me, but I can see the attraction

    Yup, has to do with the certain ad. I resisted posting about it because I didn't want to make fun of anyone who was supporting the board, but after a while the whole thing was just rubbing me raw.

    I guess I can buy the "spending money to reduce time spent" thing. However, see my response to Mike...

    You may think it's cheesy but for the thousands of pro wedding photogs who use them, it saves a bunch of time. Sure you can take the time to find out how to do each step in Photoshop, but if you're shooting 30-50 weddings a year you may not have time to take a class or read a book on the subject. When you're a wedding photographer, speed of workflow is very important. The nice thing about those actions is you can either use a little bit or a lot and you can combine them too. I'm not saying you should use them all the time, because I think you shouldn't depend on them 100%, but they are helpful.

    Yeah now this is one I don't get... if you're shooting that many weddings and you need this effect, then you really need to learn it yourself. This is my opinion, but I wouldn't want my product going out with someone elses effect on it. Nor would I want every product I put out to look exactly the same.

    Of course, I also don't buy greeting cards because I have a problem giving someone else a "personal note" that someone else wrote. Clearly I am in the minority on that one, however, so perhaps I am in the minority here.


  • If anyone's interested, I have a template for a blank document in Word. $3,175.99 without manual or support.


  • There's a buddy of mine who is in graphic design that was basically like "Ok, so I guess I should just grab my 'Photoshop Secrets' book, record all the examples in there, and sell them... because that's literally all this person is doing."

    I mean, where there's a market, why not sell stuff I suppose... this just seems really odd.

    I have an action to create a frame for TPF... anyone wanna buy it? A bargain at $25! :)


  • If there is a photographer working 30-50 weddings a year, I'm sure they have mastered photoshop by themselves to gain that reputation from their portfolio to get them that many bookings.

    Don't bet on it...

    Kevin Kubota is making a fortune on his action sets. It isn't all amateurs that are buying them.

    As I said before, I'm sure they don't use all of them or all the time, but I'm sure (and I've seen proof) they use them and it's not just the lower priced (below $2500) photographers either.

    On the other hand though, if you are shooting upwards of 50 weddings a year, you may have someone working for you that does strictly post-processing and that person probably has an extensive knowledge of the all mighty Photoshop. Depends on the photographer though.


  • Not sure Elements can even use "actions and presets" (whatever they are). What is your motivation to start this thread?

    If selling these things is legal, I do not see a reason not to do it.

    This is like a bunch of non-photographer getting together and saying "charging $3000 to take a bunch of photos is highway robbery." Everyone paying it so it can't be robbery.

    Personally, I have enough worries without concerning myself how others try to make money. As long as it's legal, to each their own.

    Well, that's another question entirely... understanding how people make money is kinda the key to... well... understanding how to make money.

    The very fact that I get paid for my photography came out of a discussion very like this one, where the first thing I said was "Oh my god, are you serious? He gets paid $xxxx per job... for that? Hell, I could do a lot better than that."

    Of course, you have to combine that with my general personality, which is to become rather twitchy when I see people make money off of things that do not match up with my political or sociological views on things. :lol:







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